Those and the fixed main gear are NOTORIOUSLY bouncy. When your spaceplane rolls shortly after touchdown, veers to one side and then explodes on the runway, you have a problem with landing stability. I have doubled the max stress value for aerodynamics failure in FAR for every category. Safety note: Disable the brakes on the front landing gear. Kerbal Space Program 2's simulation is a lot more in-depth than its predecessor, where it was feasible for any wannabe Goddard to punch through the atmosphere with overwhelming thrust. Landing also often requires rapid deceleration to avoid running off the end of the runway or crashing into a slope when landing on open terrain. You can also use parachutes on landing, but care must be taken to ensure that an adequate length of runway remains since you'll only get one chance to use them. As such, don't use control surfaces as substitutes for wings, and don't use more control surfaces than you need. https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/124380-wing-lift-amp-wing-lift-to-drag-ratio-charts/, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Spaceplane_basics&oldid=100619. the I place on the wing and attach landing gear on those, it sometimes takes a few tries to find the right spot but well worth it. Be warned that if you do not provide sufficient air intakes for the engines you've placed, you may find that some of your engines shut down before others. Such as not producing lift, which is not what you want with a plane. if mounted on not struted part). If you can give a craft file and a mod list I could take a look. 1. Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. For this to happen, I'm assuming you're using rocket fuel tanks. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. This is for the same reason that you keep your fuel balanced. Your previous content has been restored. (Source). #2 DaSkippa Mar 14, 2014 @ 2:56am as Shkeec said check gear check gear check gear. Mechjeb Spaceplane Guidance. Heavy Cargo Space Plane SSTO Download. Unfortunately, with only these basic parts, landing on the runway won't be easy; a viable alternative is to throttle down to nothing, then belly-flop in the ocean. 3. make sure your center of mass is slightly in front of center of lift force. Also, try this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14 (still works in 0.90 if you get updated firespitter.dll). Here's a quick installment in to the. While I am not a great plane builder there is a part in the structural (I think it is a pylon?) It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. symmetry building makes them face slightly towards (or away from) each other, with wobbly results. However, it's not a matter of "atmosphere or not", just a matter of air pressure which decreases rapidly with altitude. I can not get any aircraft-style spaceplane take off from the runway, they will stay on until the end, where the engines crash into the ground and explode. Your very own tutorial.). Works well on small craft. Second try, speed over land reached over 210 m/s and it didn't flip. LV-N has less than 25% of its full power at Kerbin sea level. I thought after buying this I would have all the parts I need to build a small plane that can at least get off the ground, but I'm having trouble. Quick context, I am a software engineer. Upload or insert images from URL. Note that dropping off cargo from the back with a Mk3 Cargo Ramp is bad for more than one reason. Depending on which surface you place them on, they might not be parallel to the axis in which case. Also note that for maximum efficiency, you should make sure that your horizontal control surfaces are rotated to exactly the same pitch that you've rotated your wings. Here is an example of landing gear place on a complex geometric surface: Unstable plane Rear landing gears only seems to work on cylindrical fuselage, if you place them on a fuselage intake or anything other than a cylinder, the wheels can behave strangely. All rights reserved. I have created planes that have landing gears place right under the wing tips but they still won't work. I scoured the entire web for a solution, but found no working solution or at least dont work every time. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. All of them had one thing in common though. Let it get good and clear of the ground before applying any control to it. It is also advisable to add some control surfaces to your plane to have some control in the atmosphere: you can manually add them to the wings or choose winglets with effective control surfaces, like the Standard Canard. Heavy transport seaplane inspired to the Soviet Beriev A-40 Albatros which also appears in Evangelion 2.0! A Ravenspear Mk3 taking off from the Runway in version 1.0.5. I'm making sure that I keep trying to get it up but it just wont go! Drive gently off the runway and use the huge grassy field to take off, without care in the world about the plane veering to a side. For an example, see the A-10 Warthog's landing gears: link. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. When I Start Why Engine, It Goes Straight But As Soon As I Takeoff. Mods needed for this aircraft to work: Procedural wings, Adjustable Landing Gear, FAR. It Flips Up And Towards The Opposite Direction. Flying a Space Station through a GAS GIANT! They could go up to 120 m/s on the runway and still not lift up. Having landing gears near the front and back of your aircraft can also help to ensure that you won't break your engines or smash your cockpit into the runway. To maximize lift, your aircraft should rest on the ground with the fuselage tilted upward at anywhere up to a 25-27 angle so that the wings will end up tilted back at up to 30. You're going to have a bad time. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Doesnt make sense so just do this: Nope that didn't solve anything, even when the plane is past the runway and gliding on the little bit of space before the ocean it will slowly lower to the ocean, what am I doing wrong? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/13851-The-woes-of-building-a-space-plane?highlight=woes+spaceplane. I have created a score of other aircrafts with different designs but deleted them because they didnt work even on the runway. Install S5 moon rocket By lightbreaker_64. I just thought my planes were too heavy or not enough control surfaces. - Make sure the landing gear is as close to the center of gravity as possible, just slightly behind it (for nosewheel aircraft). This page was last edited on 14 April 2021, at 01:04. So if I start encountering wobble it's time to pull back on the stick and get in the air. Before you can make a successful plane, you must understand what makes a plane go in places other than the ground - the wings. Clear editor. Now I'll walk you through a basic aircraft; fancy stuff like science equipment can be added later. This helps to keep the performance of your spaceplane stable with any amount of fuel. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. This plane will be able to take off, travel somewhere, perform a crew report, and then land. mods used are OPT for most of the body and the front canards and tail plane, B9 procedural wings for the wings, and mk4 . Sometimes taking things off and re-attaching them does it, or you may have to go so far as to scrap the design and rebuild. If you have trouble pitching up enough to land at a reasonable speed, you can increase your maneuverability by toggling your flaps, canards and ailerons to greater than 100% control authority. With initial passes, you start off with a periapsis at 50-60 km and gradually lower your apoapsis until you're in an almost circularized low orbit and then transition to your usual re-entry approach. A plane is any craft which flies horizontally in an atmosphere utilizing lift primarily generated by wings, winglets, or control surfaces. Note that as you fly higher the air intakes will become less effective and you may come to a point when the engines will shut down due to the lack of air. How do I fix this? Note that canards are somewhat more efficient than horizontal tail fins since canards provide an upward force with upward rotation, and downward force with downward rotation. if its too far behind plane cannot lift. You want to get up to get the gear tucked away and reduce drag. Now put on center of mass and center of lift view, and move the delta wings until the center of lift is slightly behind of the center of mass - not in front, otherwise your aircraft will be able to easily flip out of control. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! You may also want to deploy your landing gears to increase your drag, as well as airbrakes if you have them. Although I usually only need 50 m/s for most planes to wobble out of control. And, of course, try to take off and land as slow as possible. I dont really need 200m/s for take off. They sometimes coincide with elevators. 32.5K Downloads Updated Dec 11, 2014 Created Dec 11, 2014. I dunno why but this picture makes the one side look like it is tipped in but I know they are straight, I believe it just the angle that the picture was taken that is causing it to look like this. The FedEx plane pulled back up in time to avoid a collision. All lift-rating means is that the wing section will resist motion perpendicular to its plane. What you ought to be using is the Swept Wings and Elevon 1s instead of the Delta-Deluxe Winglets. They all had to use the runway drop to take off. Thank you and happy landings. My Space Plane Keeps Flipping Backwards On The Runway. Alternatively, you can try landing at higher speeds with your nose pointed further down, but this increases challenges with stability and deceleration while on the runway. if mounted on not struted part) 2. put your main gear slightly behind center of mass. But, likely guess is your craft is not producing enough lift. Besides the good advice others have given, I would also be very careful with that little tailwheel. A relatively low-drag alternative is to use an inverted cargo bay and some hydraulic cylinders with structural panels as a cargo elevator. Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. Center of Mass and Center of Lift are the usual causes of instability. This can easily cause you to crash on landing. 5.whether the body you anchor the landing gears to are firm. Rapiers generally provide less thrust than a Whiplash at speeds below mach 2, but provide more thrust at higher speeds. It helps to have a center of gravity which is close to your engines so that the landing gears can be close to both. It's a prolem enough I have sever differen gear subassemblies that are stable (un wobbly) I can then position depending on COM. These have extremely poor temperature tolerance and will almost inevitably break up during atmospheric reentry. Try not to place your gears to wings, especially wingtips - if they wobble even slightly, your plane lose the balance. You can post now and register later. However, they are extremely heavy for their power, weighing as much as a conventional rocket nearly 11 times more powerful. After externsive testing and bloodpressure rise, results: it doesnt matter where you place the wheels, as long as they are not angled on the X (nose-tail) axis. Notice how the landing gears are placed out on the wings. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. Angled landing gear create rotational force for whatever reason. Keep at around 15 degrees to allow the plane to accelerate past 1000m/s. That said, parachutes are an exceedingly effective means of reducing your stopping distance. Now imagine what happens like that. You can also angle the wings themselves slightly upwards (using WASDQE) in order to make them generate more lift when horizontal. Ideally, the wings should be tilted upward at an angle about 3-5 from the fuselage for optimal lift-to-drag ratio.[1]. When gear is placed, it has just one point of attachment. At around . The most dangerous part of a spaceplane flight is returning from orbit. Try disabling friction control with on the front landing gears. And at the extreme, producing down force, which I'm sure would cause more gear issues. While having the same stock parts as in the VAB, spaceplane design is obviously quite different from pure rocket design. i have no idea why this happens please help. So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! This allows you to avoid the extra weight and mass of additional fuselage parts, so you only have to deal with the extra weight of the fuel itself. Maybe ;making the tailwheel less stiff would help, too. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. Just after having taken off, the plane will immediately start rolling to the right, and completely uncontrollably. This can turn into a fatal scenario if the center of mass gets behind the center of lift and you enter a flat spin. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). 1. tilt of the plane. Cookie Notice If, instead, all goes well, then once your jet engines have shut down you will need to start the second part of your space mission by switching to rockets. To survive re-entry, it's recommended to start your approach back into the atmosphere at a shallow angle, ideally with a periapsis of around 30-35 km. Managed to fix it with some different wings; idk what was going on with the other ones but I was just thr FAT aeroplane wings. Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. FAR says it would take an Angle of Attack of 24.3 degrees at 119 m/s to generate enough lift to get it to take off. I have also thought about a wider base. Valve Corporation. Cure: Draw a mental axis from the nose to the tail of the plane and use the rotate tool (summetry on), on one of the wheels. To minimize the risk of such a situation, try to land on a large patch of flat open ground approaching a downhill slope. After placing wheels I always use the rotate gizmo on snap with absolute orientation. Upload or insert images from URL. Note that the lift rating does not mean that the wings will automatically lift a spaceplane into the air when it's moving forward. I started investigating why this was happening. This aircraft handles smoothly, no matter how you turn, roll and flip this aircraft, it will never lose control. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I just thought my planes were too heavy or not enough control surfaces. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! The Mk1 fuselage parts only tolerate up to 2000K, while Mk2 fuselages tolerate up to 2500K, and Mk3 fuselages tolerate up to 2700K. All of them had one thing in common though. They could go up to 120 m/s on the runway and still not lift up. How wide is the base. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. Is there a way to place landing gear so that i can guarantee my plane can remain stable on the runway even at high speed in excess of 200m/s? If your aircraft is burning up during this stage, you may need larger wings to slow you down faster, radiator panels to carry away the heat more effectively, parts with a higher temperature tolerance (like the Mk2 liquid fuel fuselage instead of the Mk1 liquid fuel fuselage), or parts to increase your maneuverability, like RCS thrusters, reaction wheels, or canards and elevons. Such flight involves lift-induced drag, but reduces the total thrust required to traverse a distance at a given speed. I'm trying to do some of the surveying and taxi-ing missions because now that's all the games giving me but flying with a regular rockets just not working for me. Need to move them up. The only drawback to the reduced friction is reduced steering control, so this setting may need to be adjusted when taxiing to/from a runway, but should otherwise be kept minimal for takeoff and landing. LV-N engines also have the advantage of using the same liquid for propellant that jet engines use for fuel. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. This thread is quite old. That, combined with a Unity joint bug, makes your plane bounce. Pasted as rich text. Because of how small Kerbin is and how high its gravity is, a perfectly flat surface just north of the equator will cause planes taking off to bias to the right of the runway, as if they were rolling downhill. It's strongly recommended to keep your landing gears well-spaced from each other to ensure that the aircraft will be difficult to roll into a collision. Or maybe launching it in a vertical, Space Shuttle-style config. I made a KSP replica of the Horten Ho 229 while trying to make a short takeoff plane.If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know in the comments.My. One FL-T100 tank can't power any rocket into space, yet a Shock Cone Intake, a Mk1 Inline Cockpit, a half-filled FL-T100 and a J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine aimed in the general direction of "up" will let you laugh your way past the 70km mark at nearly 1200m/s. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/65638-Basic-Airplane-Space-Plane-Aero-Tutorial. When dealing with high-speed landings, you may touch down too quickly and cause the front of the plane to smack into the runway. Beyond that, you're going to get some wobble once you get close to take off speed. It can be helpful to use a slightly taller front landing gear and slightly shorter rear landing gears so that your fuselage points slightly upward on the ground, thereby increasing the angle of attack of your wings while on the ground. I have found a solution to my problem. I have built lots of spaceplanes. You cannot paste images directly. FOX 56 News Video More Videos Necessary for heavy/long spaceplane. Similar principles apply when finding suitable landing sites away from the KSC. - KSP Matt Lowne 527K subscribers 1.3M views 2 years ago I've wanted. A good example of this is at the KSC runway when landing on a 90 degree bearing. I see absolutely no need to be traveling that fast down the runway. Firstly, inadequate air intakes for the number and type of engines you're using (causing some engines to shut down before others). Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device Contents 1 Making a fuselage 2 Understanding Lift 3 Control Surfaces 3.1 Elevator 3.2 Aileron 3.3 Rudder 4 Landing gear Making a fuselage Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). You can slow down either by deploying landing gears (and airbrakes if you have them) or by repeatedly pitching up and then back down to increase your drag. Some testing is usually required with new designs to determine the best ascent profile. DO NOT ANGLE THEM! I have never successfully landed a single aircraft before as they all tend to roll over when landing at high speed. Do agree that the rear wheels either need to be brought closer or or the Nenter of mass needs to be move closer to the rear wheels. How to Fly a Plane - KSP Beginner's Tutorial - YouTube 0:00 / 25:53 How to Fly a Plane - KSP Beginner's Tutorial Mike Aben 30.6K subscribers 78K views 2 years ago KSP - Absolute Beginner's. You cannot paste images directly. To minimize drag, vertical tail fins can be kept minimal, since aircraft can be maneuvered adequately by roll and pitch alone. Though, I use the FAR mod which will change things, so I can't guarantee the results will be useful, but it might be interesting. They all had landing gear placed at the front and at the back. Descending greater than -10 m/s usually makes a mess. Thanks for all the help. I have done everything imaginable to try to remedy this problem. My first test of the plane parts in KSP2.Like and Subscribe for more Kerbal stuffs!#kerbalspaceprogram #ksp2 #kerbalspaceprogram2 #shorts #spaceplane #nasa There are several forces in Kerbal Space Program which have an effect on the flight characteristics of SSTO craft. You can resolve the emergency by transferring fuel from rear fuel tanks to forward fuel tanks, but you should alter your design to bring your wings further back to prevent such incidents in the future. Lift maxes out at 30 and declines beyond that point, so avoid excessive fuselage tilt.[1]. Display as a link instead, Keep in mind that as your altitude increases, your control surfaces and winglets will become increasingly ineffective and will no longer work at all once you leave the atmosphere, so you may need to add alternative control systems like reaction wheels or RCS thrusters. If you've been able to successfully re-enter on previous low orbit test runs, you should be able to use this method to achieve similar rates of success once you've slowed down sufficiently. For heavy rockets, it might be required to use structure to space the gears away from the body to allow more pitch. This is generally an issue of not spacing your landing gears out far enough apart. (However, it must be noted that it is bad practice to use ailerons as elevators since it makes it hard to control the aircraft), The rudder moves the tip of the plane left and right; it is rarely used, since it is hard to put it both up and down due to the possibility of hitting the ground. See if there is still a problem when only travelling slowly, say <20m/s. - Have enough lift, either by a big wing area or high speed. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. . Valve Corporation. After a successful touchdown, high-speed motion on the runway (let alone uneven ground) can be unstable, causing the aircraft to careen to one side or the other, potentially resulting in loss of a wing and sometimes the entire aircraft. However, they do take a conventional mix of fuel and oxidizer, and thus require much more fuel mass than jet engines or LV-N Nerv. Next you need landing gear. If you placed the main wings at the centre of mass and then added the smaller wings behind, this should be correct already. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. To survive re-entry, it's recommended to start your approach back into the atmosphere at a shallow angle, ideally with a periapsis of around 30-35 km. But I am still not sure if there are more reasons or perhaps it is just a physics bug which I am wasting my time on. When your jet engines stop working, it is time to ignite the old, reliable liquid fuel engine. Make sure that all of your landing gears are pointing in exactly the same direction. This makes design easier, eliminating all concern for balancing jet fuel against rocket fuel. 1. make sure your main gear is not wobbling (ie. Control surfaces are heavier than wings. The default max stress value is just ridiculous, its like flying in hair gel, everything gets torn apart so easily, like that will ever happen in real life. Remember how you want your center of lift/drag to be behind the center of gravity? If you can't slow down in time, you can simply flick your engines back on to take off and turn around for another try as you pass over the coast. KSP Stock Space Shuttle by _ForgeUser18393701. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14. This would indicate two problems. Mk2 aircraft may be able to get away with it, but even then it's often best to space them further out. Or adding a RATO boosters. Note that most air intakes tend to produce less drag than aerodynamic nose cones and pointy cockpits, especially shock cone intakes. Also note that shock cone intakes appear to provide the best air supply at all mach speeds, and unlike other air intakes, they do not decline in performance beyond certain mach speeds. Conversely, if you keep all of the fuel in the back, you may find that your center of mass gradually drifts so far in front of your center of lift that you can't keep your nose up anymore, also potentially resulting in a fatal scenario. Paste as plain text instead, my center of lift is always slightly infront of my mass. Vice versa a plane with lots of control surfaces will be perfectly controllable (maybe even too much) but may have big difficulties with taking off and landing at reasonable speeds. When you are near the end of the runway, quickly activate then detach them to get the nose pointing up. Symmetry placement should give you perfect symmetry, as far as the game is concerned. First of all, since the launch happens horizontally, you will have to include landing gears, and you will most likely want to include jet engines for the first stage for excellent fuel and cost efficiency. If you need to carry more fuel, consider using the Big-S Delta Wing as it provides the same lift-to-drag and lift-to-weight ratio as any other wing of the same mass, yet has the ability to carry fuel as well. * Unlock steering and disable brakes on front gear. Basic structure Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. 3. angle of the wheels. Edit: I made a simple easy plane in career mode that is both stable and cheap: A trick i've used before is to put modular girders on the sides of the fuselage and putting the gear on the bottom of the girders. If the front landing gear touches down first and has its brakes on, it's going to make the rest of your aircraft pivot around it as it's pressed into the ground. (Sorry For Poor Image Quality) : r/KerbalAcademy 385 votes, 49 comments. Easier just to bring the rear wheels closer as well as a in line reacton wheel. If there is, I would have found it long ago. Also pay attention to your fuel balance, especially if you're using several tanks placed in parallel to each other. You can deploy your chutes just prior to touchdown for rapid deceleration. This is also the same reason why planes start rolling toward the middle of the runway; because both ends of the runway are further from . Tips aplenty in this thread: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/13851-The-woes-of-building-a-space-plane?highlight=woes+spaceplane It taught me everything I know, except for the stuff I learned elsewhere. Wow, if you need 200 m\s to take off, you should think about adding more lift. Here are a few pictures of it: Take a picture with center of mass and center of lift turned on. All of these problems can be exacerbated or reduced by adjusting the amount of fuel in your tanks during landing. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. As you approach 35-50 km, your aircraft will most likely level itself out, at which point you can try aiming about five degrees above the horizon line. You can post now and register later. If the problem has to do with lift then travelling very slowly, possibly even slower than that, should counteract the effects of lift and you won't drift nearly as much. Your plane is almost finished. All rights reserved. An alternative is making sure you have complete control of the craft. Increasing the number of intakes will not allow you to continue using your jet engines at higher altitudes. So I started a new career file after not really playing for a long time and I'm now at the point where I just dropped 45 Science to unlocked Aviation to get some of the plane parts that I need. EDIT: So, I set the front landing gear spring and damper to 0.5, and also set the tail gear spring and damper to 2, and the problem was fixed! Note: Some high-efficiency rocket engines lose most of their power and efficiency in low atmosphere. Hopefully this gets you your first aircraft that can take off and land, which is the biggest hurdle to being able to make KSP aircraft. I moved the back landing gear to right underneath the COM. In an aircraft with two or more engines, this can potentially cause you to enter a flat spin which can be unrecoverable if your center of mass is behind your center of lift. This is most likely the standard jitterbugging problem. All the weight is pushed on the middle and it can't pull up. Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane.

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