You can post now and register later. I think that mindser still exists. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. Yeah a lot of questions for those of us that came into this planning on a 6 year deal. Although there's a max of 8 years TIS that can be changed in a New York minute. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and Start With Why. Deployments are great flying, but terrible on a family. An ADSO twice as long as other branches (for academy grads) or 6+ years longer than ROTC counterparts is only going to deter quality officers that view an additional obligation as a loss of opportunity for careers beyond the service. for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) But Im a guard guy so RTAG is at the end of hooker advanced airframe for me theyll be hiring, all my airline buddies said everything is ramping back up. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. It doesn't matter that theWOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. Why or why not? The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. Looks like I'll be doing 10 years insteaddang. I retired in 1998. army aviation 10 year adso. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. The army has never been good at personnel management. 10 year ADSO started FY21. However, he missed out on that Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path and is concerned about a 10-year UPT ADSC. No additional time added with a BRADSO. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. If retention suffers too much, the Army will face a pilot production shortfall that will add to the existing shortage. Extra 4 years would NOT make a difference. Aviation Bonus (AvB) Program. Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/ I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. . In a worst-case scenario, hes looking at: Wow, thats a lot of moving and time away from home! SUPERSEDED AR 600-8-29, 02/25/2005; SUPERSEDED ARMY DIR 2019-30, 10/01/2019: Footnotes: https://armypubs.army.mil 03-APPLICABLE TO ARNG UNITS: Security Classification : UNCLASSIFIED: Dist Restriction Code : A APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED: Changes There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. What are a few of the issues which the Army could resolve for aviators? C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. No. So Army. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. U.S. ARMY RECRUITING COMMAND > In-Service Opportunities > U.S. Army Press J to jump to the feed. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. Another disparity is the pay inequality between the militarys pilots. Posted in these groups: Pilot Officers Warrant Officers Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? Once he identified some units in which hes interested in, hed need to start. Army directive, AD 2021-31, approved Sept. 10, 2021, and effective Oct. 1, 2021, will reset the time required for aviator warrant officers (military occupational specialty 152 through 155) to. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. Army is trying to get payback for their costs, but that will be increasingly hard to do if airlines are hiring. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. The impact on warrant officers may be as severe as the impact on would-be aviation lieutenants. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a, When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and, For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about, For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . For more information, please see our Unlike pilot deployments that can be as short as a couple of months, engineer deployments are usually 6-12 months. Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. Im a senior NCO with two decades of experience and proven loyalty to the nation and her army. Getting in just under the wire. Has this officially started? Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. There is no reset. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. Furthermore, the Army should implement quality of life and quality of service surveys for every pilot who remains. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. If hed gone to UPT right after college, its more likely that hed get a lot of his deploying done before his kids were that old, or even before they were all born. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. It explains how to perform well in your training, I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a. is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. It just seems like a bait and switch to have me sign a conditional release and paperwork that says 6 years and then say, oh by the way we meant 10. Fixed wing is cheaper. 6 years is a masters degree, 10 years is 2 years longer than a PH. Service commitments are different for Warrant Officers in the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots' retention in the future. Increased ADSO Effect on Recruiting and Retention The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. I want to do it for as long as I can. 10 is nuts. This is usually a 1-year assignment, though it might be two. This doesnt exactly seem legally right. I wish thiswasa little more clear. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. Why should you consider doing Company . They require more time for people to gain experience. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. The Army has more career Enlisted willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer and increasein pay for the family, with or without a degree. At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! A reduction in accessions will turn a long-term solution into a short-term problem. New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation - United States Army army aviation 10 year adso - kestonrocks.com The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? Military Service Obligation | RAND Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? If people don't want to serve, you are actually harming readiness, not helping it. MWI Podcast: Is Great-Power Competition a Strategy? In an all-volunteer force, you won't be ready if most of your personnel in a critical branch want to get out. My formation barely ever conducts social events. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. There's definitely a balance issue, and I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. army aviation 10 year adso. You're losing highly skilled aviators that took millions of dollars and 5-10 years to train. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. His administration's definition of readiness was turning maximum amount of red chicklets on spreadsheets to green, sending people over and over to the field and CTCs without any break, and endless rotations to Korea and Europe. Lasting solutions must come in the form of quality of life and quality of service improvements. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. In my next 6 years I flew a total of 50 hoursAnd it's not for lack of trying, I was just in assignments (that I didn't ask for and tried to get out of) where there were no aviation units around. While its not impossible, and BogiDope can absolutely help you get there, this is far from guaranteed. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. Im would bank on that being the flight school start date officially. I've been in the Army for a long time, and it's never been worse than now. Expect bonuses to disappear as well. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Vertical Reference There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. I assume you're in flight school officially once completing BCT and WOCS. While the goal of the CSA's program was a well intentioned effort to make up for a dearth of aviation experience at senior ranks, it wasn't well received and Congress bit back. The Graduate School Option (GRADSO) portion of the CSP program continues to be suspended since YG2014 pending officer corps reshaping efforts. There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. im hopeful the army can fix this problem ASAP. Having looked at these options, lets go back to our original thought: If you missed your shot at the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path are you screwed? Special and Incentive Pay Index - U.S. Department of Defense 10 is a big commitment either way. That's my 2 cents. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. While the ADSO goes into effect in October, its effect on retention wont be felt for at least six years after the first ten-year ADSO class graduateslikely not until late 2027. Your appointment to W1 is a conditional appointment until you graduate flight school so you will revert to whatever enlisted rank you held prior to WOCS. The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. The OPTEMPO is higher now than it was at the height of GWOT. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. (Well assume a move to the Guard or Reserve after completing your initial 10-year UPT ADSC. More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to. Apache course end? . Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. Welcome back, fellow aviators! But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. That seems like a lifetime to an 18 year old. His answer was, Of course not. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. 10 Year ADSO : r/Armyaviation - reddit The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Cookie Notice However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a Restricted ATP rating and a shot at a regional airline job a couple of years before his Active Duty pilot peers. Although busy, it left plenty of downtime for people to have actual lives. The service should find a better way of addressing its shortage of pilots. Anyhow, a 10 year ADSO is an ungodly amount for a branch without a proper Aviation culture. Privacy Policy. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. I was enlisted for 6 before I moved over. Army rescinds COVID-19 vaccination requirements, $84 million contract awarded for Excalibur replenishment, Army officer part of newly resumed cooperation for International Space Station, Chief Warrant Officer 3 Sarah Stone is just one of four, Army CIO speaks at Army Europe and Africa 2022 Cybersecurity Summit, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Mr. Douglas Bush, ASA for AL&T, July 27, 2022, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Dr. Raj Iyer, Army Chief Information Officer, and LTG John B. Morrison, Jr., Army Deputy Chief of Staff G-6 June 09, 2022, Vietnamese-American service members parallel paths to the American dream, Bengali chief warrant officer finds the American dream through serving, Soldiers inspire new Army directive on parenthood, pregnancy and postpartum policies, U.S. Army STAND-TO! The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Be older than 18, but not more than 33 years at the time of board selection (Active Component (AC), USAR, and ARNG) . In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. While I completely understand the desire of people to fly, there is more to it than that. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. Army Aviation: Alternatives to the 10-year Service Obligation My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. amp, There is still an aviation bonus for mid career tracked guys, and while some success has been had with that, I dont know if theyve gotten the response desired for the blood money though. New Army directive will reset aviator warrant officer date of rank (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. 10 year ADSO - General Military Helicopter Discussions - Vertical For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. More career Enlisted apply than street2seat on a yearly basis. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. I know this is an old article but as a graduating senior this policy is stupid. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. Meanwhile students don't do touchdown autorotations and other traditional flight maneuvers. While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. You'll be a WO for three-ish years. Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. Guess what? All branches in the military are facing a pilot shortage. ADSO is completed. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. All of military aviation is what you make of it. Must be a volunteer just like airborne. The upper age limit to enter flight training is established in law and requires Congressional action. There are more than enough fully qualified CAREER ENLISTED personnel from the 5 services, waiting in the wings, so to speak, to apply for the WOFT program. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. Unfortunately, it probably wont exist long enough for it to achieve the desired effects. Thoughts anyone? Check this post out on Reddit:https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! Aviation Warrant Officers have a 10-year service commitment after completing Warrant Officer Flight School. Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? Pasted as rich text. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. A chief warrant officer 3 with eight years of service earns $5093.70 per month, whereas a captain with eight years of service earns $6435.00 per month, a difference of $1,341.30 in favor of non-Army pilots. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path.

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