I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Good morning guys. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. I didn't see him online. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? Peter Biello: Well yeah. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Part II - WMUR Do they travel. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. Think you've seen a mountain lion. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. So that did it for me. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. That's pretty elaborate. And it's not really strong. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Thank you. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Part I Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. John you're on the air. Can you tell us about that story. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. Yes. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Mountain Lions in NH. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. It was not a bobcat. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. Patrick Tate: Yes. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. Sandy Hodskins, owner of West Meadow Farm in Bradford, New Hampshire, took time from shoveling Wednesday to enjoy the snow with her horse, West Wind. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. And they were using all the habitat. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Well thanks for sharing. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? - WMUR Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction 3,207 views Jul 31, 2019 78 Dislike Share Save New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife 634 subscribers During my thirty-one career at the New. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . You saw what you saw. I can't. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. On a dirt road. New Hampshire Public Radio | Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Mountain Lion in New Hampshire? - Bowsite.com He said matter of fact I do. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. If so that's for us as an agency. Does not test random Scouts. Thank you very much for listening. Chartered: 1973 . Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. New Hampshire's Mountain Lions | NH Wildlife But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . That's too big for Bobcat. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Gap Mountain Lions Club And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. So one thing I'll add. Why are there so many false positives? Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. List of mountains of New Hampshire - Wikipedia "Of those three to five reports,. Saddleback Mountain Lions To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests - AP NEWS Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. They absolutely do. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. 1957. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Or years or so. Really appreciate it. You're on the air. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Peter Biello: Wow. Thanks for taking my call. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. The brother and sister big cats have lived . Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 They sent it already. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. So. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Caller: Yeah. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. Early in the morning. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. Tim Yeah. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. I mean they're a survivor. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction - YouTube Let's look for other evidence. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. What kind of animal is that. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Think you've seen a mountain lion? You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Well within there. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. No that's a little bit outside the range. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Part II Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. We want answers. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Mountain Lion Population By State: 2023 Data [Statistics] Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. The report came in from a conservation officer. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. Caller: I do. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Let us know your story and share your photos. There are corollaries in other states. I'll send it to you. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. Caller: Oh hi. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Mountain lions live in the state. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Post your sightings and NH photos here! And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Can you look into this picture. Less successful males roam further. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. So it's there was no question in my mind. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. No doubt in my mind it was. 44-N Links. One was in Shelton. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. Caller: Absolutely. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Something along those lines. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Caller: Oh yeah. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. So what a neat experience. Just. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. So do they. And it was unmistakable. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Peter Biello: Ok. Yes. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. New Hampshire Public Radio | On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards.

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