N731NR: "Vegas Approach, Centurion 731NR with you descending through 5700'"LAS: "1NR, Las Vegas Approach, Las Vegas altimeter, 29.88. I just looked over the link you posted. She then states (in so many words) that she didn't clear him and she's the only one that can clear him. Just like the American pilots did when they couldn't get runway 31 at JFK. The Ultimate Guide On How To Become An Airline Pilot. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. I won't belabor those points. Get the stick out of your asses. The second LAS TRACON told him to exit Bravo he should have done the max-bank 180 his aircraft and his passenger(s) and he is comfortable with and exited Bravo. Must have been a Kennedy. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". Is there any way you can vector me through? Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. Me - knowing said student thought oh ##@@. What are the Advantages of Using VOR Systems for Navigation? Pilot deviation is a serious mistake to make when you are piloting a plane, and the consequences could be disastrous. This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. Student name just called ATC, skipped approach control called the tower directly when he was on a short final for FSD advised his name and I'm coming in. MuckRock users can file, duplicate, track, and share public records requests She is going to give him the number when he's ready. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. Part of the perfected status is a complete name, and address from each requestor. All I do is shake my head and smile. would argue at times. Pierce, April 6, 1859. For verification purposes, even though the expiration date on the registration certificate may not match the expiration date in the FAA Aircraft . This brasher warning is intended to provide the involved flight crew with the opportunity to make note of the incident that has taken place and gather their thoughts before it is discussed. He had to pass my father's exam before IP could sign off on him. They also rechecked the examiner who tested him on his private he got suspended for a short time and had to recheck as a examiner. There was a similar incident once about 10 years ago in New York where the kid would keep declaring and undeclaring an emergency. Probably is not the first time he had poor service from ATC. Get the stick out of your asses". This notice provides new procedures for investigating pilot deviations (PD), and completing FAA Form 8020-18, Investigation of Pilot Deviation Report by certificate-holding district offices (CHDO), Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO), and certificate management offices (CMO) with oversight of air carrier operators certificated under I assume the ATC reports him to the FAA and the FAA investigates? The other pilot had it right - he's a real a*&^. I don't care where people get frustrated. He's going to find it hard for anyone to swallow his excuses. He exercised his PIC. Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. The controller states that the pilot needs clearance to be in Bravo and to have requested clearance. "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? PS: The trauma was from being hit with luggage that fell out of the overhead upon disembarking. In this case, N1NR is not landing at Las Vegas but at a different airport and is just passing through the area. . Controllers can order pilots to leave airspace for many reasons but the pilot is refusing to follow the order. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Pilot "I busted class b". People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. He never said he was unable to exit the Bravo due to terrain like he told the supervisor. She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. In contrast, the pilot of N731NR exhibited an unrepentant anti-authority attitude. That's a serious violation right there to blatantly refuse an order by ATC. This is usually in the following format: (Aircraft identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION, ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). She was released later on. CTO (Control Tower Operator) with AS Degree in ATC. The ATC has so many things going on- for him to argue and therefore take her attention away from all the "balls in the air" she is dealing with, the punishment should be more than losing his license, he should be charged with attempted manslaughter or something. BTW to the ATC controller who explained workload issues during handoff - thank you!! I noticed a typo "pilot deviation" should be of course "pilot deviation". This was a blatant disregard of regulations after being told to exit the Class B. And in any case, if the ATC says you need to get out of the airspace, you do it. If the worst were to happen, people could lose their lives due to pilot deviation, which is not something that anyone wants to have on their conscience. The belligerent behavior of the pilot with the controller and the sound of his voice makes me wonder if this might have been suffering from mild hypoxia. often don't recognize their own issue. VFR altitude adjustable to an incorrect barometric pressure of 200'. The owner of that plane holds a Commercial Pilot Certificate. Or . This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. You might get hypoxic if you fly right over Class B at 10000 or above. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. Penalties, possibly, but he claesrlrx requested class B and was blown off "Nobody gives a f*. Let the appropriate agency (the FAA) handle this. Thanks to anyone who knows. These people keep us safe. (i.e. Or the one over "Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. After that Dad called a friend in the FAA out of the STP and reported the now private pilot as a hazzard and requested a re examination. He let his situational awareness slip, not a good thing. However, if you are unaware that you have made a mistake, or you have purposely broken the rules, then it is likely that you will have to take part in further testing or remedial training. I would have made up some BS like instruments or alternator. Both pilot and atc handled the situation poorly. Wrong. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986? Good job on hitting a new high USA! Indeed: N731NR - Aircraft Registration Information D DankVectorz Legendary Member FAA Messages 1,895 Facility N90 New York Tracon Jun 25, 2020 #6 Phillyman2633 said: What the cuck? Open the communication! You need special clearance to enter this airspace. He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. When other pilots are straight up calling you an asshole on frequency, and nobody but you is concerned by it, YOU fucked up. Avoiding Pilot Deviations.pdf (1016.81 KB) Pilot deviations can occur in several different ways. Car accidents because of human error are just as fatal only to less people. This guy should be banned from flying period! "Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? The controller continues to direct other traffic including warning other planes in the area that N1NR is there and approximately where it is so that they do not collide with it as it has still not left Bravo. This should help to give you a better understanding of pilot deviation and the risks that are associated with it. Tower: "N12345, I'll call your right turn north east. Sometimes they have multiple frequencies on the same station, so you might hear more than one controller. I wonder if they're aware of how much exposure this has in the pilot community. The tower controller likely For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/faa-records-for-n731nr-97015/, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) Invoice.pdf, 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) PDPNR.pdf, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request #2020-007191. It should be a few hundred. First, when aviation is involved we ALL give a f. People's lives are at risk. In aviation, Bravo airspace or Class B space is a zone around some of the busiest airports that no plane or helicopter is allowed to enter without permission. He responds he requested clearance previously. Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where they're apparently allergic to rules. No request for Bravo clearance is heard.While it is not known what N1NR said in the last exchange, this is the nature of radio communications as some transmissions do not go through. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside the nuclear industry. Recognizing the mistakes, learning from them, and apologizing makes for more experienced PICs, and thus safer airspace. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. The tower controller likely doesn't care, as he won't be handling it. I'm without reason or belief to know why you lack the ability to be surprised. Second, yes, people make mistakes, and when someone tells you "Hey you made a mistake here's how to correct it" you do just that. The main reason is safety to clear an area around the airport for takeoffs and landings. This will come out in time. My local airport is RDU. Learn more. Nobody in Vegas is "allergic to rules." Me - yes sir, IP just sent student name on his long cross country and controlled airspace flight. (Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). Turns out he's a slumlord, "supplement" pill pusher, and owns a "wealth generation" company. Pilot: Ive asked for clearance multiple times.ATC: N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo.ATC: N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. I'm flying." In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. Opinions expressed here are the authors alone, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any of these entities. Ground deviations can happen while taxiing, taking off, or . She should have vectored him out after he refused. 3 This pilot is more than likely going to have to do recurrent training probably 10 to 15 hrs before privalages can be restored. Is spoiled B short for "Spoiled Bravo Airspace" or "Spoiled Brat" or "Spoiled B." :). She didn't take the high road when he became argumentative. I drove IP the 95 miles to FSD and he had a session with the controller and the supervisor. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. Visit a tracon JUST ONCE. I hope he stops making bad decisions before he no longer has the ability to do so. Happens every day, but not usually with the drama that this knucklehead exhibited A few weeks ago a commercial pilot blew through the O'hare Bravo - ATC kept trying to gently help him by repeating the local altimeter reading thinking he might check his altitude by the 3rd time he offered it, but eventually just had to notify the errant pilot and provide him with a phone # to call. Not saying that he should yell at him, but apologizing seemed a bit odd. Please refer to the above referenced number on all future correspondence regarding this request. It should have gone 1NR, please exit the Bravo. The guy is completely wrong, sad thing is he will probably only get a slap on the wrist. Good luck. I.E "whatever you say, dude" Visit a tracon JUST ONCE. There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. . Looks like he was below 6000 the whole time. What almost everyone here is saying is correct (save for the C who ragged on GA pilots - the kind that most ATPS once were in order to get to where they are today- B!). (https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N731NR). @Wingslover said, "If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircraft.". Maybe "Karen" is the fictitious name the ignorant/uncaring pilot in this story gave himself!? And stop hating on those people in supermarkets and parks. Not for nothing, but shes only got 2 guys in the area, coulda cleared him through. > Nobody gives a f*. Some of the penalties of pilot deviation can be no action, a warning notice or letter of correction, certificate suspension, civil penalties, retraining, and even certificate revocation. Id. In over 30 years of flying, I have sat and listened to amateur pilots give ATC professionals a load of sh*#. Or, the guy may be a massive jerk. I once ate spices in the Old City. like this one. He flew right across the ILS approach glideslope to LAS 26 after he was told to vacate Bravo airspace recklessly endangering multiple lives. This is a willful/intentional violation of FAR and ATC instructions. Pilot deviation can leave passengers, crew, and people on the ground in danger. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); He violated Bravo airspace. My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. You don't insist you didn't make a mistake. Well you guys been calling all kind names to this pilot, and you probably right, but he made the mistake or not to come inside of Bravo,the tower job now os to try bring everyone safe in,then let FAA deal with it. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings Caller - this is xx. Only then did he comply with instructions. Also in this case, N1NR is crossing directly into the path of other aircraft's landing approach (2 Southwest airplanes at that moment were landing). Everything is on tape. These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? Las Vegas class B is the only one Ive flown close to when I was on flight following trying to get into Henderson and they told me to squak 1200 and see ya. It is quite apparent that the pilot is well versed in being an a**hole. This was a deliberate and willful violation of regulations. Possible Pilot Deviation Imagine you're the PIC, departing from Runway 27L. https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/a1wehj/so_who_has_one_of_these/ He's a danger to us all and I don't want to share the sky with him. The best way to ensure that you do not get in any trouble is to stay vigilant, follow the rules, and file a report if you know that an error has occurred on your behalf. Then you are free to call the tower on the landline when you land and find out why you were denied clearance or complain about poor services. I'm the ATC supervisor in FSD is NxxxxR still owned by (bus name). Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my ticket pulled if I messed up - though I wouldn't like that. Pilot deviation is a serious incident, and there can be lots of different outcomes depending on the exact situation. For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. What a name for a company! What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? See more about our ethics policies here. The plane was a Cessna P210N, so pressurization could be an issue. a responsibility to operate safely and competently within the FARs regardless of the price of your plane. As well as this, you might want to consider making a call to an aviation attorney before you call the number that you have been provided with. > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. Plus..help us if weather becomes a problem, as it did yesterday..with vectors around threatening weather. no no, Im saying the process in place is unnecessary - this phone call is more like a call to an upset friend than what is supposed to a dispassionate, factual entity (ATC, FAA).

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